xeo
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Post by xeo on Jul 19, 2005 3:10:21 GMT -5
Hi, is there a Linux-On-DTV-Project running somewhere? Theoretically it should be possible because the C64-On-A-Chip doesn't have the 64k limitation like the old 6510 cpu and it IS possible to extend the memory of the DTV. Of course, a lot of people will ask for the sense of such a projekt. Perhaps it doesn't make sense at all because the C64 isn't very fast. But in the last years the speed problem didn't stop people from porting linux on the strangest platforms human life could imagine What do you think about such an odd idea?
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Post by Leif Bloomquist on Jul 19, 2005 12:12:41 GMT -5
Well, there is a multi-tasking OS for the C64 called Lunix, that has some superficial similarities to Linux. In theory it could be patched to work with the DTV's extra memory or faster processing (on the DTV v2)
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Post by Jim Brain on Jul 20, 2005 0:59:11 GMT -5
A port of uCLinux would be your best bet, as the DTV still does not contain a real MMU.
Jim
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Post by MagerValp on Jul 20, 2005 16:29:34 GMT -5
is there a Linux-On-DTV-Project running somewhere? Theoretically it should be possible because the C64-On-A-Chip doesn't have the 64k limitation like the old 6510 cpu and it IS possible to extend the memory of the DTV. No, it's not possible, the 6502 doesn't have what it takes to run a modern OS like Linux. The 2 MB RAM in the DTV works more like a ram drive - it's not possible to execute code from it.
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xeo
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Post by xeo on Jul 20, 2005 16:35:21 GMT -5
It's not necessary to execute code from the 2MB ROM. Simply load the code of the ROM in the RAM and execute it there. Why shouldn't this work?
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Post by David Murray on Jul 24, 2005 15:09:52 GMT -5
Sorry.. I guess you just don't know enough about what an operating system like Linux requires in terms of hardware. Several people made some valid points, lack of RAM to execute code from, lack of an MMU. Those a big points. But look at it from another angle. The 6800 CPU found in the original Amiga and Macintosh is quite a bit faster, more versatile, and accesses a LOT more RAM than the DTV. But even it cannot run Linux. I think the oldest and slowest CPU that can actually run it is a 68020 CPU with addition of the Memory Management Unit (the before mentioned MMU) which is a seperate chip on that platform.
The best thing we could hope for is for development of LUnix or Contiki to take off again and for somebody to enhance it for use on the DTV. I admit that would be really cool.
Imagine this: DTV connected to Jim Brain's little storage device, PS/2 keyboard and S-Video style monitor. Now if you could run an enhanced version of Contiki and if there was some way to talk to the outside world, you could have an internet capable machine in a joystick.
Maybe Jim could add some code to his IEC device which could add an RS232 port and figure out a way to route it to the C64 through the IEC bus. Yes, it would be slow, and would require software support on the C64 side of things, but at least the DTV wouldn't be isolated from the world.
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xeo
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Post by xeo on Jul 24, 2005 15:15:15 GMT -5
You guess wrong. Never heard from e.g. ucLinux? It's running on an AVR and the AVR doesn't have a MMU at all. So don't tell me Linux isn't possible without. In fact the DTV supports more memory than any AVR of your choice does.
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Post by RaymondDay on Jul 26, 2005 18:06:41 GMT -5
I sure they could do it if they program linux in 100% assembly! Just look at MENUET OS for the PC. It is on a bootable floppy has windows and games and telnet and can get on the web. All in 100% assembly. You can see info and some photos at www.menuetos.org/I think assembly is just as hard a basic! They just wast there time and CPU and ram programing in what code they do for Linux and Windows. -Raymond Day
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xeo
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Post by xeo on Jul 27, 2005 1:24:08 GMT -5
Why do you want use assembly? After an RAM upgrade to e.g. 4MB there is space enough. Than you can easily work with GCC. (Is there a GCC for the 65816?) Actually I wonder why there isn't a linux for the SuperCPU yet. It is fast and supports enough memory. As I know SCPU has got support for ethernet as well. Could be an idea first to port linux to SCPU and then try to get it to DTV. *edit* RaymondDay: menuetOS looks really nice ... but imho it's really senseless to develop an entire OS in assembler nowadays
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Post by David Murray on Jul 31, 2005 10:00:34 GMT -5
You guess wrong. Never heard from e.g. ucLinux? It's running on an AVR and the AVR doesn't have a MMU at all. So don't tell me Linux isn't possible without. In fact the DTV supports more memory than any AVR of your choice does. \ First of all, I don't consider ucLinux to be linux at all. I guess it is, sort of. But as it cannot run any regular linux applications and never will be, you might as well consider it something else entirely. So, if you put it that way, then yes I will concede that it may be possible to port uClinux to the DTV. However, I am sure it would be quite difficult since the DTV is still an 8 bit machine with only 2 registers and an accumulator. It also still has the problem of onyl being able to execute code in a 64K chunk of RAM. So I think it would be a monumental task to make it work at all, and then a miracle to actually be able to run a program on it. Most embedded systems at least have a 32 bit processor with all RAM available for code execution. As far as Menuet goes. I have played with the O/S for years on and off. I think it is a great project. Unfortunatly due to lack of interest from the general public it will likely never grow into a full blown operating system. For example, I do not believe you can install it on a harddrive and actually do usefull things with it. Then again, I haven't played with it in about a year so maybe I need to go check the website.
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Post by Leif Bloomquist on Aug 1, 2005 13:56:28 GMT -5
Actually I wonder why there isn't a linux for the SuperCPU yet. It is fast and supports enough memory. Well there's Wings, which is loosely based on QNX. wings.webhop.org/Wha?
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