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Post by David Murray on Dec 26, 2007 20:31:35 GMT -5
Can somebody point me in the right direction for a complete starter kit, preferably for a PIC microcontroller? I've looked around on the internet but I am not sure exactly what I need.
this will be for my electric-vehicle project. I know Jeff Ledger wanted me to go with a propeller. But I think that may be a bit too steep of learning curve. I have seen the BASIC stamp stuff everywhere, but I think they are probably underpowered for my needs. So I think the PIC series will probably fit my needs best.
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Post by Jeff Ledger on Dec 26, 2007 21:02:44 GMT -5
I'll only make the comment of "If I can learn it, *anyone* can do propeller." Actually, I have also been looking into the PIC. IIUC, it can be programmed in BASIC? David, please share your PIC startup kit details when you get the basics working. I'd like to know where I'd have to start to play with PIC. Jeff
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Post by David Murray on Dec 26, 2007 22:13:53 GMT -5
Hmmm. Pyrofer pointed out a website called sparkfun.com and I've been reading on there. Now I'm thinking maybe the ATmega32 may be a better choice for my project.
I went up to Fry's today to see about picking up a kit but all they had were BASIC Stamp kits. To be honest, I don't think a BASIC Stamp is powerfull enough for my project goals and I don't want to learn one system only to have to change in the future.
THe goal, as stated before, is to read a bunch of inputs from various analog and digital components in my electric car and display information on an LCD module on the dash. I'll start out with just a simple speed readout, but I want to grow it into doing other things as well, eventually being the brains to the entire vehicle, so to speak. I'm going to be doing a lot of "flash and test" cycles.. so I don't want to have to put the chip in a programmer and move it to a board to test the code 40 times an hour. I'd rather be able to program it while it is in place.
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Post by Jeff Ledger on Dec 27, 2007 0:36:13 GMT -5
Propel......
Ah, Nevermind... <smirk>
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Post by Jim Brain on Dec 27, 2007 0:36:34 GMT -5
I think all of the newer MPU families offer In Circuit Programming (PIC and AVRs do, I would assume Propellers do as well).
One item in the AVR/PIC favor is the CAN options. CAN is a automotive networking system used in most newer cars, which allows the manufacturer to distribute processing overr the entire car instead of putting all of the brains in one place.
Personally, although I have PICs (and Ubicom SX ICs), I prefer the AVR, for it's easy processor layout and more sane instruction set.
That said, I think both will do fine.
If you want a cheap AVR kit, try the butterfly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVR_Butterfly)
Jim
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Post by jsaily on Dec 27, 2007 8:29:43 GMT -5
There is a free and fully featured C-compiler for the AVR-family. Maybe someone more fluent in AVR can provide guidance?
I mostly use PICs in my projects and have a commercial compiler (CCS PIC-C) license from work.
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Post by David Murray on Dec 27, 2007 10:00:51 GMT -5
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Post by Jeff Ledger on Dec 27, 2007 10:45:51 GMT -5
Nice find! Looks like a board & programming plug are all you need.
Curious, what is the difference between something like this and the arduino, which uses the ATMega chip?
Jeff
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Post by Jeff Ledger on Dec 27, 2007 11:03:22 GMT -5
If you want a cheap AVR kit, try the butterfly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVR_Butterfly) That Butterfly kit is indeed cheap. If I bought one of these out of curiosity sake, is it enough to really do anything interesting, or is this the "hook'? Also, is there enough here to be the answer to my idea of ready-made interfaces that only require a few connections and software to allow the creation of an SD or CF interface to the 64 or other systems? Jeff
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Post by gmoon on Dec 28, 2007 9:09:25 GMT -5
david:You might also look at sparkfun.com: board with usb $31 board without usb $16 (out of stock) Sparkfun is reliable, and their shipping is cheap. I've heard some negatives about Futurlec... All these boards (futurlec included) will need a programming cable, too. jeff #1:The Arduino has an extra level of software abstraction. Not something I find useful, as AVRGCC is excellent. Arduino boards also have USB connectivity (not necessarily an advantage for creating simple projects, but a BIG plus for programming convenience.) And for production-type projects, the arduino software would have to be installed on bare AVRs (I'm pretty sure you can do that yourself with a stand-alone NON-usb programmer.) Stock AVRs and boards with simple ISP programming have always worked fine for me--but you need an older PC with a parallel or serial port (or a proto board with a serial connector and a bootloader on the AVR....) jeff #2:Sure, the butterfly is powerful enough to do useful stuff: Minuses: --it's a step down in power from a propeller, which you've been using. But it's useful for all the stuff the propeller doesn't have: ADCs, multiple serial protocols, etc. --the LCD is essentially a clock screen; not many chars. --it's a 16K ROM chip; most of the AVR devices that read FAT have been 32K. Not enough memory, I think, for your goals. The AVR32 chips have TONS of features, but they are expensive, and not aimed at the hobby market (high pin count, SMD only.) Pluses: --bootloader, so can be programmed with standard serial cable --on-board flash mem chip (512 Kb) --Max232 on board for serial comm --mini joystick --temp sensor (light sensor removed for ROHS, but you could add one easily..) NOTE:No AVR can be programmed via USB or a stock serial connection without having a bootloader installed (Arduino and Butterflies have them.)
Otherwise, you'd need one of the following --programming cable, parallel or serial (ISP or JTAG) --Protoboard with high-voltage serial programming (STK500)
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Post by David Murray on Dec 28, 2007 10:20:27 GMT -5
Gmoon, good to hear from you.. Haven't seen any posts from you in a while.
Yes, I looked at sparkfun and I found one board I liked, but it was out of stock. Yes, I did think it was ridiculous that I had to pay $16 for shipping (via US Prioirty Mail) from Futurelec, but the total cost of shipping and everything was still under $70 and that includes a programmer, realtime clock, ribbon cables and connectors, and several other small parts. So I think i did okay.
I downloaded and installed the Atmel AVR Studio 4. I have played around with it, have questions, which I'm going to start a different topic thread about..
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Post by gmoon on Dec 28, 2007 11:30:23 GMT -5
Gmoon, good to hear from you.. Haven't seen any posts from you in a while. Yes, I looked at sparkfun and I found one board I liked, but it was out of stock. Yes, I did think it was ridiculous that I had to pay $16 for shipping (via US Prioirty Mail) from Futurelec, but the total cost of shipping and everything was still under $70 and that includes a programmer, realtime clock, ribbon cables and connectors, and several other small parts. So I think i did okay. Thanks, David. Still making projects, but not DTV stuff currently. And I still lurk here every day or two... The Futurlec board does have a lot of nice features: eeprom socket, RT clock socket, etc. And all the headers, terminal blocks, etc. I'm sure it'll do the job...
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Post by David Murray on Jan 11, 2008 10:46:03 GMT -5
Well, I won't be buying from Futurlec anymore. I bought that kit over two weeks ago and figured it should have arrived by now. Then Fedex calls me yesterday and says I have to fill out all of this paperwork because it is comming from Thailand and contains integrated circuits. I would have thought the shipper should have to fill all that out. I had no idea it was comming from Thailand, either. So I filled it all out and faxed it back to them. I bet it will be another week before it gets here.
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Post by retrojim on Jan 22, 2008 3:22:31 GMT -5
Well, I won't be buying from Futurlec anymore. I bought that kit over two weeks ago and figured it should have arrived by now. Then Fedex calls me yesterday and says I have to fill out all of this paperwork because it is comming from Thailand and contains integrated circuits. I would have thought the shipper should have to fill all that out. I had no idea it was comming from Thailand, either. So I filled it all out and faxed it back to them. I bet it will be another week before it gets here. Sounds like you bumped into the RoHS paperwork nightmare... :-) Just curious - does anyone here use 8051's (or derivatives) anymore? 68hc11's? I guess it's all in what one has in one's junkbox...
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